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	<title>Comments on: Best Wishes to the Healthcare Rally&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/</link>
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		<title>By: B. Bultman</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-441</link>
		<dc:creator>B. Bultman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 16:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-441</guid>
		<description>Yes, the Irish Health system is in desperate need of proper funding and management. People need also to be aware of their rights as patients. We can all make a little difference by going to the following site and signing the petition:

http://www.activecitizenship.net/content/view/56/78/

It’s at least a start!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the Irish Health system is in desperate need of proper funding and management. People need also to be aware of their rights as patients. We can all make a little difference by going to the following site and signing the petition:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.activecitizenship.net/content/view/56/78/" rel="nofollow">http://www.activecitizenship.net/content/view/56/78/</a></p>
<p>It’s at least a start!</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-258</guid>
		<description>Well I&#039;m afraid that means that your argument with regard to health care has no merit. Sorry to say that, but what you are saying is that you have a theory, but you are not willing to test that theory. 

Graham, You have to test it, otherwise it&#039;s just words. 

I&#039;m not criticising the holding of theories, I&#039;m just saying that you have to put them to the test. you cannot just refer back to the theory as proof of the validity of the theory. Nor can you put the theory to the test in one field of social and economic life, (selling computers), and hope that you can slide it across to another field of social and economic life (health). 

In order to convince, you have to give evidence. anything else is just an intellectual card-trick. 

I mean, you are telling me that these theories show us the difference between socialized and non´-socialized economies. But how does that play out with regard to health? The German, French and Spanish public health systems are of a standard that we only dream about. The American public system is a disgrace to humanity. You need to tell me, with facts and researched empirical evidence, why non-socialized is better. 

In other words, citing a theory is not proof of a theory. 

Good luck with the next few months, and certainly I&#039;ll keep on visiting your site!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I&#8217;m afraid that means that your argument with regard to health care has no merit. Sorry to say that, but what you are saying is that you have a theory, but you are not willing to test that theory. </p>
<p>Graham, You have to test it, otherwise it&#8217;s just words. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not criticising the holding of theories, I&#8217;m just saying that you have to put them to the test. you cannot just refer back to the theory as proof of the validity of the theory. Nor can you put the theory to the test in one field of social and economic life, (selling computers), and hope that you can slide it across to another field of social and economic life (health). </p>
<p>In order to convince, you have to give evidence. anything else is just an intellectual card-trick. </p>
<p>I mean, you are telling me that these theories show us the difference between socialized and non´-socialized economies. But how does that play out with regard to health? The German, French and Spanish public health systems are of a standard that we only dream about. The American public system is a disgrace to humanity. You need to tell me, with facts and researched empirical evidence, why non-socialized is better. </p>
<p>In other words, citing a theory is not proof of a theory. </p>
<p>Good luck with the next few months, and certainly I&#8217;ll keep on visiting your site!</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-250</guid>
		<description>Ha! You mean posting to a blog through my Touch? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ha! You mean posting to a blog through my Touch? <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: simon</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-247</link>
		<dc:creator>simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 12:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-247</guid>
		<description>Graham do check out the different health fields. They are very different then the irish interpretation of socialized medicine. Which is based on the NHS is just as bad as ours. They work on the Bismark system

Also your obviously are not from the country side :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham do check out the different health fields. They are very different then the irish interpretation of socialized medicine. Which is based on the NHS is just as bad as ours. They work on the Bismark system</p>
<p>Also your obviously are not from the country side <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-200</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-200</guid>
		<description>Well, ben, you&#039;ve done well drawing me on this point, but I don&#039;t really believe in the primacy of empirical research to guide us in these matters. There are serious methodological issues at stake here, but to put it simply, I do believe in universal truths - that we can deduce economic laws of cause and effect which are logically necessary in all situations where particular assumptions about human action hold.

What the above blog post aims to demonstrate is that logical economic laws easily predict and explain the broad differences we can readily observe between socialised and other industries. The theory acts as a powerful tool to interpret history, but the history itself is not how we derived our theory. 

The justification for all of this is rather involved, and I know I haven&#039;t provided it here yet, but I do plan to do that over the coming months, so I hope you will stick around. If you join our message board I will provide you with the original works which influence me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, ben, you&#8217;ve done well drawing me on this point, but I don&#8217;t really believe in the primacy of empirical research to guide us in these matters. There are serious methodological issues at stake here, but to put it simply, I do believe in universal truths &#8211; that we can deduce economic laws of cause and effect which are logically necessary in all situations where particular assumptions about human action hold.</p>
<p>What the above blog post aims to demonstrate is that logical economic laws easily predict and explain the broad differences we can readily observe between socialised and other industries. The theory acts as a powerful tool to interpret history, but the history itself is not how we derived our theory. </p>
<p>The justification for all of this is rather involved, and I know I haven&#8217;t provided it here yet, but I do plan to do that over the coming months, so I hope you will stick around. If you join our message board I will provide you with the original works which influence me.</p>
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		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 04:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-178</guid>
		<description>Well, there&#039;s no way around it. If you want to talk about health systems you have to analyze health systems. The fact that it is difficult for you is no excuse.

I mean, what you&#039;re saying to me is that it is too complicated for you to do the type of qualitative and quantitative research necessary to come to a reasoned analysis of the different methods and approaches. So, because of that, you use the bizzare analogy of the supply and demand of computer sales and, well, hope for the best.

May I suggest that you bite the analytical bullet and do the research? The reason being is that, despite what you think, your comparison doesn&#039;t serve any real purpose except to bounce itself off your almost theological assumption of supply and demand as a universal truth. 

You HAVE to put that to the test. you HAVE to sit down and give a critical analysis of the various health care systems in operation in the western world, and once you&#039;ve done that, then you can say whether your supply and demand thesis stands up in the field of health care. 

Even in general, even for the purposes of simple blog, you can at least tell me something about the faults  - as you see them - in the Spanish model, the German model, the French, Dutch, and Scandinavian models.

What you cannot do, at least you cannot do it and retain credibility for your thesis, is to say: well, all of that stuff is really, really difficult, so.. here´s my conclusion on health, based on what I know about selling computers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there&#8217;s no way around it. If you want to talk about health systems you have to analyze health systems. The fact that it is difficult for you is no excuse.</p>
<p>I mean, what you&#8217;re saying to me is that it is too complicated for you to do the type of qualitative and quantitative research necessary to come to a reasoned analysis of the different methods and approaches. So, because of that, you use the bizzare analogy of the supply and demand of computer sales and, well, hope for the best.</p>
<p>May I suggest that you bite the analytical bullet and do the research? The reason being is that, despite what you think, your comparison doesn&#8217;t serve any real purpose except to bounce itself off your almost theological assumption of supply and demand as a universal truth. </p>
<p>You HAVE to put that to the test. you HAVE to sit down and give a critical analysis of the various health care systems in operation in the western world, and once you&#8217;ve done that, then you can say whether your supply and demand thesis stands up in the field of health care. </p>
<p>Even in general, even for the purposes of simple blog, you can at least tell me something about the faults  &#8211; as you see them &#8211; in the Spanish model, the German model, the French, Dutch, and Scandinavian models.</p>
<p>What you cannot do, at least you cannot do it and retain credibility for your thesis, is to say: well, all of that stuff is really, really difficult, so.. here´s my conclusion on health, based on what I know about selling computers.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 00:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-160</guid>
		<description>Hey Ben, the problem I have with comparing these different models - instructive though it may be  -  is that they are all very heavily socialised (admittedly some more than others). It&#039;s difficult to find precise causes of the particular differences which exist between them.

For the purposes of a simple blog post, I think it&#039;s a much stronger point to illustrate the dramatic differences in the rate of advancement between socialised and non-socialised industries. I am appealing to simple economic principles. The laws of supply and demand apply in all exchanges, whether we are talking about PCs or operations. The comparison in progress is not useless in that context.

Incidentally, I&#039;ve written and now edited this comment of mine using an iPod Touch - another neat example of the type of product you get from a relatively unregulated industry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Ben, the problem I have with comparing these different models &#8211; instructive though it may be  &#8211;  is that they are all very heavily socialised (admittedly some more than others). It&#8217;s difficult to find precise causes of the particular differences which exist between them.</p>
<p>For the purposes of a simple blog post, I think it&#8217;s a much stronger point to illustrate the dramatic differences in the rate of advancement between socialised and non-socialised industries. I am appealing to simple economic principles. The laws of supply and demand apply in all exchanges, whether we are talking about PCs or operations. The comparison in progress is not useless in that context.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I&#8217;ve written and now edited this comment of mine using an iPod Touch &#8211; another neat example of the type of product you get from a relatively unregulated industry.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 19:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-159</guid>
		<description>The point I&#039;m making is that comparing the irish health care system to selling computers is a useless comparison.  It&#039;s completely worthless.

What you need to do is compare health systems. So, compare the American health care system with the European model, or  compare Ireland with the American and the European models. Then you have something to work with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The point I&#8217;m making is that comparing the irish health care system to selling computers is a useless comparison.  It&#8217;s completely worthless.</p>
<p>What you need to do is compare health systems. So, compare the American health care system with the European model, or  compare Ireland with the American and the European models. Then you have something to work with.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Hi D_D, I think I can - or at least I would, say if the Department of Communications did not exist. I&#039;m not sure about the nature of your argument - maybe that broadband provision is a natural monopoly best operated by the government?

Anyway, I&#039;m sorry I don&#039;t see what is objectionable about being able to get medical attention immediately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi D_D, I think I can &#8211; or at least I would, say if the Department of Communications did not exist. I&#8217;m not sure about the nature of your argument &#8211; maybe that broadband provision is a natural monopoly best operated by the government?</p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;m sorry I don&#8217;t see what is objectionable about being able to get medical attention immediately.</p>
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		<title>By: D_D</title>
		<link>http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/best-wishes-to-the-healthcare-rally/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>D_D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irishliberty.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-156</guid>
		<description>&quot;I can buy a 1.8GHz desktop PC with Vista and a 17″ flat screen monitor for less than €500, yet nobody campaigned for a decent public PC service.&quot;

Ah! but can you get broadband in your area, or REAL broadband in any area - without state intervention?

The problem IS you can get a PC, and medical attention, instantly with cash. Without cash you might have to wait 18 months for a colon cancer test. Or maybe die.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I can buy a 1.8GHz desktop PC with Vista and a 17″ flat screen monitor for less than €500, yet nobody campaigned for a decent public PC service.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah! but can you get broadband in your area, or REAL broadband in any area &#8211; without state intervention?</p>
<p>The problem IS you can get a PC, and medical attention, instantly with cash. Without cash you might have to wait 18 months for a colon cancer test. Or maybe die.</p>
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